Topic: Donkey Kong Bananza

@N00BiSH I basically disagree with everything you have written on this thread, but that's all right!

@Pastellioli As I said, it's not literally a beat'em up, but definitely focused on action, whether it's beating enemies or destroying the environment. I don't see yet that inspiration you are describing, maybe the collectibles? The enemy design is awful and I don't like the gameplay that has been shown.

@Banjo- It’s fine if you don’t like it a lot, I’m sure it’s not what a lot of people were expecting, though to me I see a bit of more Rare inspiration present in it, and you are right about the game having an emphasis on action this time in comparison to other DK games, which is interesting to me, because I think a lot of the platformers I have played before don’t have that much emphasis on attacking, action, and destroying stuff.

You are right, I definitely do think the collectibles present are reminiscent of Rare’s older platformers the most, that and the fantasy elements the most. Those two make the game very interesting to me, and I am liking how Nintendo seems to be seemingly taking a bit of inspiration from them, even if it isn’t fully Rare inspired.

@Pastellioli I don't like the gameplay nor the characters, specifically the enemies, that were shown. The art style doesn't appeal to me. I love a good platformer, but I wouldn't consider this game a platformer for now. Of course, I love other genres, but destruction combined with mediocre level design can become a gimmick. I'm happy for those that like what they're seeing here.

@Banjo- Agree to disagree, sure but did you not play Jungle Beat? It was a pretty physical game.

@N00BiSH I did and got all the medals. I still have the bundle. It's a good one restricted by the bongos, but the game is built around them, so playing it with another controller doesn't make sense. The best Donkey Kong games are Rare's trilogy. I was hoping for an evolution of the Donkey Kong 64 concept here, a challenging platformer, since Super Mario Odyssey was casualised and turned into a walking simulator by Nintendo's and Rare's standards. I know more people here was hoping for the next Donkey Kong 3D game to be a pure platformer after Super Mario Odyssey. I've read that here not long ago.

@Banjo- I'd argue the real challenge of DK64 mostly stemmed from getting all the collectibles, beating the minigames and suffering through Beaver Bother. The actual platforming, while solid, felt secondary as a result of the game padding itself out with all that extra content. It was Rare at its best but also its worst. No amount of Dr. Pepper can make beating the game any less exhausting.

@N00BiSH Oh, it's definitely the least balanced Rare's game I can think of. Even the old Spectrum games I played on Rare Replay are arguably better designed. I like collecting and I love a good platformer, but in Donkey Kong 64, collecting is not just the main thing, but there are extra layers of frustration added on top of it. That's why I said "an evolution of". I look at Banjo-Kazooie and I say, yeah, that's a great platformer, better than Super Mario 64 in many ways. I look at Donkey Kong 64 and I don't regret getting 101% for some reason, but please don't make me do that twice in my lifetime.

The evolution of Donkey Kong 64 I would like to see is more related to the tone of the game and the platforming. It's mysterious, beautiful and creepy at the same time. It has a solid soundtrack. I criticise Nintendo a lot, but Super Mario Sunshine is, I think, one of the best 3D platformers ever made, despite the few frustrating objectives it has. The Nintendo games I'm seeing and playing lately (on Switch) are safe, correct, accessible and because of that, nothing special. Super Mario Sunshine is exactly that, with a layer of glamour and ridiculous powerups/transformations to tick the box of the Nintendo difference, but the originality is no longer in the DNA of the games, but in the weird things and gimmicks. When I saw Donkey Kong Banaza trailer, I saw more of the latter.

@Banjo- Hmm, I see what you're getting at, even if I'm not 100% with you. I guess for me, if I'm gonna be playing a Nintendo platformer that doesn't star Mario, I'd like it to offer something I can't already get from the plumber, since he's practically raised the basic collectathon to a fine art at this point. Kirby and Wario manage to stand out just fine, having carved out strong identities for themselves, but while I love the Country series, I feel DK has yet to do the same for himself. After Country 1, the big ape wasn't even the lead in the following two games, and in 64 he doesn't have much to stand out amongst the other five. The Retro duology sort of remedies this, but it still feels like he's pulling from the plumber's playbook a little. This is why Jungle Beat is so great to me and why I'm excited for Bananza - they both seem set on actually making a game around the specifics of Donkey Kong as a character. Can't imagine Mario or the DK crew walloping bosses with such ferocity or ripping through terrain like it's nothing.

@N00BiSH I disagree about Rare's trilogy. Of course, most games get inspiration from others, but they weren't exactly a Mario game. They play quite differently and the animals are a great deal, on top of the two-character gameplay separately and together, while replacing small and big Mario. There are different characters and ideas in each game. The level design, graphics and soundtrack are carefully crafted and original. Donkey is stronger, slower and heavier than the other characters in those games.

I agree about Kirby and Wario having their own gameplay, although Wario's is similar to Mario and Kirby is made by HAL. I think Yoshi's Island would have been a better example of Nintendo giving a character its own platforming style. Donkey Kong Banaza literally reminds me of Donkey Kong in Super Mario Movie, not just the look but the attitude and even the gameplay.

@Banjo- I'm not so much talking about the general presentation and big differences - that's all solid on their own - I'm talking more about just the specific mechanics, and how I don't feel they're really in service of the main character, Donkey Kong, a big hulking hairy ape. True, he's bigger and stronger than Diddy in 1, but Diddy is just the better character of the two when it comes to precision platforming(he even carries barrels better). 2 and 3 cast DK to the side, with the latter substituting with flipping Kiddy Kong like he's the next best thing, which only made more enticing to just play as Dixie. They're all great titles - DKC1 is one of my all-time favorites - but I'd be lying if I said they really benefit from having Donkey Kong as a playable character. It's like if a new Wario Land came out, but instead of having a focus on exploration and treasure hunting, it was just a standard 2D Mario-style platformer with a Wario skin. You get what I'm saying?

With each passing day, I curse that film for giving people the impression that it now suddenly has any real influence on the brand. I assure you, DK's character in Bananza is more in line with his character in past than it is with the movie.

In what way? Nothing about the Country games seems like something Mario doesn't or couldn't do. Jumping and stomping on enemies? Duh, that's the most fundamental mechanic of a 2D platformer. Rolling? Mario's had rolling moves in some games (like Odyssey). Picking up barrels? He does that in Mario vs. DK. Climbing ropes? Also Mario vs. DK. Launching from barrel cannons? He flies out of cannons in 64. Animal Buddies? Mario has Yoshi. What does DK have to hang his hat on in DKC that generic platformer protagonist couldn't also do?

Totally agreed that the digging/tearing out the ground and throwing it around gives DK more of a gameplay identity. That is definitely something that generic 2D platformer protagonist definitely couldn't do. Mario doesn't seem strong enough to do that. Yoshi can't do that. Kirby can't do that. Maybe Wario could, but Wario isn't quite as savage when it comes to tearing out the entire ground. You could make a much better argument towards this being unique to DK as opposed to some of the mechanics in the Country games or 64. None of them feel like they justify DK's existence as a distinct IP, this does.

@Bolt_Strike The barrels and rope climbing do have roots in Donkey Kong, but yeah, pretty much 100% this.

@Bolt_Strike That's not what I said but your conclusions and simplification. You misunderstood and missed my points entirely. Mario didn't have rolling at the time, you mentioned Odyssey which was released decades later. I completely disagree with your reasoning, but that's okay! You don't need to defend Donkey Kong Bananza so intensely, because I said I'm happy for those that like it!

@N00BiSH I said that it reminds me of the movie not just because of the look, that also has similarities with the original design and Rare's, but the attitude. The attitude is a perfect match and the gameplay is based on that destroyer attitude, as much as you hate the movie.

@Banjo- I like the art style but I do agree that just punching and destroying everything in sight doesn't look particularly fun. I haven't watched much of the gameplay though so I'm sure there's more to it than that, and the trailer still impressed me overall despite not liking the look of that mechanic - I'm confident Nintendo knows how to make it more enjoyable than it seems at first glance, or at least that the exploration and platforming will be fun regardless.

@Dogorilla Thanks. I thought this thread was the best place to share my disappointment, but obviously I don't expect everyone to agree with it and I posted that in every comment so far. It's frustrating when people only reply to disagree, because what's the point? We are not going to change each other's minds. I'm aware that even Drag X Drive will have its fans just because it's a Nintendo game, but nobody can convince me that it isn't a tech game and a pure gimmick to sell the mouse function. Back to your points that make perfect sense, I also think that despite my initial reactions, Donkey Kong Bananza will be more than the destruction and visual effects of the trailer.

@Banjo- I quite like the look of Drag X Drive myself, but then I'm a sucker for control gimmicks. It does look pretty bland visually and it could get old fast, but I'm hoping it'll have a good variety of courts and modes and the footage they've shown isn't just the entire game.

Back to Donkey Kong, one feature I do like the look of from the little bit of Treehouse footage I watched is that you can pick up and throw pretty much anything, and different materials have different properties. The example I saw is that thrown mud will stick to things whereas thrown rocks can break things, which is quite a basic example but I can imagine there'll be a lot of possibilities for interesting interactions and puzzles.

@Dogorilla Hopefully, that will make the level design more interesting than it looked in the trailer. I hope you enjoy Drag X Drive, it just doesn't seem any fun to me, especially compared to Nintendo Land and Wii Sports, that were great.

The treehouse I'm sure didn't show everything but even it showed some really cool platforming tricks and a mini game and exploration and puzzles. I think it will have everything we expect from Donkey Kong Country games but also... a lot of destruction on top of that 😆

@FishyS That sounds pretty great then! I definitely got Mario Odyssey vibes from the trailer (I thought it was Odyssey 2 until DK appeared) so if it's anywhere near that level of quality and variety it should be an excellent game.

@Dogorilla Hard to guess if it will be as good as Odyssey. I'm optimistic it will at least be fairly good just because it's a major Nintendo game and they rarely drop the ball.